Immigration has always caused problems within the US. The Alien and Sedition Act of 1798, looked at the French ethnicity and ideology as the enemy. In the 1850's the Irish were seen as "savages" as a substantial number migrated to the US. During WWI there was intense hatred for the Germans (even those among us as American citizens). During WWII the Japanese were looked upon as enemies. Then during the 1950's a fear for the Communist enemy projected a suspicion upon the Southeastern European countries. Today, the target is Mexico and Central America.
What is the definition of an American? Who does this definition include? exclude? With a continuing wave of undocumented immigrants, concern has been raised concerning Americas security and welfare. Should there be a wall built on the border between the US and Mexico to control this influx of immigration? Why or why not?
This conflict between Mexico and the US has many layers and can be looked at in many ways. The more I have looked into it the more complex it becomes. I believe that there are some very deep roots that go clear back to our founding fathers that play into this conflict, but I would like to hear your thoughts and feelings on the subject of immigration and the US-Mexico border.
Tuesday, October 30, 2007
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8 comments:
I think that this issue could be very simple. I dont think we should build a wall. it would cost to much and its not an effective way to keep them out. the key is to make it so they cant live here illegally. the first step, cut off all government assistence to all non citizens. this kills the problem of people anyone just coming here and living of the government. second step we need to make it easier to become legal. the amount of time and paperwork is staggering. third step, charge any person or company found hiring illegal aliens ten percent of there net income for EVERY illegal working for them. this is a huge deterent for companys that just look the other way and hire illegals. the money made can go towards helping people come here legaly. with those step you have just made it alot harder to live here illegally. most illegal aliens would have to get legal or leave. the last step is what i call the three stike rule. its a little harsh and i would probably leave it out, but if we catch them here illegally once we deport them. twice, again deportation. if they come again thats three strikes. then the penalty is DEATH. this keeps them from wanting to keep coming back illegally. there are no appeals and no death row. also keep a better record of who comes in or out. if you leave you have to get in through a government contrtolled access point. this make it alot harder to smuggle drugs in. if we took these steps no one would come here illegally and drug flow through the border would slow down.
I agree that there should not be a wall built. History has shown us time and time again that once a wall is built, it takes a long time to come down and during that time, a lot of people get hurt.
Having said this, I am not sure you have convinced me that this issue could be a simple one. Humans are not mechanical beings, in fact they are very emotional. The issue of immigration is an emotional, one that has very deep roots. It is not an issue that will be solved with a 1,2,3 step. It would be nice though if it could be that easy. I will try to show you why I think this issue is more complicated.
First, "to cut off all government assistance to all non-citizens." What is your definition of a citizen? Is it someone that has documentation? If all documentation of me was lost, who would I be?
For decades slaves lived on American soil yet were not considered citizens. In the constitution the phrase "the people" is used. Does this refer to non-citizens as well? It is a phrase that has been interpreted differently since the signing of the constitution.
Second, "make it easier to become legal." This I do agree with you on. It takes so much work just to become legal. There are questions asked that I don't know how can we expect other people to know it.
Third, "charge any person or company found hiring illegal aliens ten percent of their net income for EVERY illegal working for them." This is a tricky thing to do. As long as there are jobs that individuals consider "dirty" or "to low" for them, there will be economic reasons for people to move here. Yes, fine the companies but were does that leave us? It leaves companies unable to find workers to do the menial jobs people already in America don't want. A company functions from the bottom up. EVERY WORKER no matter what job they work is needed to make the company run. One job is not better then the other (though the amount of money paid to varying positions would suggest other wise). Who is going to work the jobs that we won't because we consider ourselves "to good" or "to educated"
I don't mean to sound so negative. with this response. I really wish there was just a simple answer, but I really don't think there is. I think issues of racism, prejudice, superiority, identity, etc. play into this conflict. These kind of issues go way deep. The border between the US and Mexico is just under 2,000 miles long. Is a government controlled access point really going to work to keep track of people coming in and out?
Ok. This may make me sound heartless, but I dont care if we hurt some feelings along the way. I am looking out for the common good of the american citizen. Yes by citizen I do meen documented citizens. If your paper work was lost apply for new paper work. the only reason I would not want to build a wall is because it would cost to much and not be effective. If it was cheaper and worked then I would be happy to see a wall built up. again I am not worried about poeples emotions.
As for those jobs that every one says no one wants to do because they are to dirty. I did those jobs as a teenager. I was turned down by a company once because I wanted $5.50 an hour. I had a year and a half experiance. The job was given to some one else. I can not say for sure if he was legal or not, but I do know he didnt speak any english. so when some one trys to tell me that if we get rid of all illegal people that no one will do there jobs it hits a nerve with me. They are great jobs for teenagers and people in there early twentys. Alot of people like me, when I was a teenager, would take these jobs.
If we had the three stike rule then yes access points would be enough. Not very many people would be stupid enough to try and get across illegally if it ment possible death. The best part is, the people that are stupid enough wouldnt last long.
This is an issue that is very close to me. I have personally been afected by illegal aliens coming here and taking my job. I could debate this all day, but I have work to do. Also I dont feel like writing a book. sorry if these words offend any one, especially you Riah.
Don't worry about offending me. I like to hear all kinds of opinions. I do think it is sad that you think a wall should be built if it were the least expensive way to go. I have read to many history accounts were walls have affected the entire world. I guess I really do care about individuals everywhere. They are people too.
By putting a name such as "alien" upon a person we can almost slide by the fact that they are human beings not "aliens." Hollywood has depicted what aliens look like and I don't see those images reflexed in the faces of people coming to America.
In your very first post you mentioned that this could be a simple issue. However, in your second post you mentioned that this issue was something that you felt very deeply because it is something that has affected you personally. I think that is why this is such a complex issue. It is something that is felt very strongly by many people on both sides of the debate.
Now, for your three strike rule. It isn't just a little harsh. It is VERY harsh. It actually reminds me of stories told about times during the slave period. "slaves" were told if they run away they will be punished, dehumanized, and possibly killed if they even attempted to escape from horrible conditions. In this case there are people who are running away from other kinds of conditions and with the three strike rule we would be killing them for it.
Now I am the one who is going to write the book, but I have one more thing that I have been thinking about, but I am not quite sure if it is true or not.
Has the term "illegal alien" come to define all those who have crossed the Mexico border? When we see individuals from Latin America do we automatically wonder if they are illegal without first getting to know them as a human being? There are a lot of people who are documented, but I fear that they get treated as if they were illegal too.
I am sorry that you have been personally affected by this immigration issue. However, I can't help but wonder if it had been someone "white" who had taken your job if you would have felt the exact same. (Now I am the one that needs to apologize if I have offended anyone)....(maybe blogs are a good way to get feeling out and heard so healing can come on both sides?)
The fact of the matter is, the wall in and of itself is irrelevant. With proper border control and a documentation process, it simply wouldn't be needed. What makes some people think that it is needed is the huge gap between the number of workers for which we have demand, and the number that can legally be admitted into our country.
There are less than 100,000 H1B visas granted each year for immigrant workers, and there is demand for over 400,000 workers more than we have - each year.
To say that there are plenty of young American citizens to take the jobs that the immigrant workers are filling is patently wrong. It is a demographic fact that there aren't enough young workers to sustain economic growth in this country. Look at closed societies such as Japan and how their aging population choked their prosperity because immigration is not allowed. If we want to have ANY hope of paying for the retirement and medical care of the huge numbers the are going to retire in the next 20 years, we have to have younger workers to come in and provide the growth and pay the taxes.
If you want another fact - look at the unemployment rate. In 1980, it was thought that 5.0 to 5.5% was full employment. We are now, even when the economy is not booming, almost always under that. Believe me, there are no workers out there that "want the jobs, but want a higher wage."
We need sensible immigration policies that will allow us to control our borders, collect all the taxes, and provide the economy the backbone it needs to keep from imploding.
America was founded on the principle “that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” If we cannot agree on that I don’t know if we can consider ourselves to be true Americans.
In context of this blog I find it interesting that we (the government and the governed) have embraced one of the grievances sited against Britain at our succession in that we have “endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither…” Well immigration has proven to continue legal or not; we have made a mess of getting the allegiance part recorded though. Who am I to deny someone else the American Dream – Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Pursuit of Happiness is the most ambiguous. I believe pursuit of happiness is the ability to progress or at least the hope of progression. Progress is measured different for everyone; money, power, education, family. However, all of them require one common element, work. When we try to restrain that element, we crush the American Dream and render it lifeless. Strengthen everyone’s desire to work towards their own progress (happiness) and there is no end to the number of people this country can support. And that is in every level of progress -- welfare, education to corporate giants.
Give me a man willing to work for his happiness while maintaining the unalienable right of Life and Liberty of those around him and I will work along side him. And embrace those actions that will enable him to record his allegiance to this County that was founded upon those principles.
Wow, I'm not nearly as educated as a few here, but I do know that here in Arizona there are sooo many people that fill in the low paying jobs here that are from Mexico. It's what our economy is built on. Now I'm not saying they're all illegals, but making it more difficult for Mexican's to get into the US just may effect the economy. And I don't think we should kick out illegals. I know people who are illegal because their parents brought them here. They can't help it. What we need is a better way to get them citizenship. or at least a green card. Anyways, that's just my thoughts.
-Rachel Hale-
These are some interesting thoughts to think about. First, I agree that there are jobs for everyone even with the continued immigration flow from Mexico. However, I wonder what kind of jobs are they actually getting?? One argument about the workers from Mexico is that they are taking the jobs that teenagers would be working. This may be true to some degree, but what kind of jobs are these really. They are minimum wage, low benefit, perhaps poor working conditions kind of jobs. They are also, for the most part, that we think of transition jobs or the jobs that are too degrading.
Second, I liked the comment about life, liberty and persuit of happiness. My question to this is what is the definitions of life, liberty and happiness?? There have been many leaders present and past who have done things in the name of liberty and need for happiness, but I personally don't see the leaders moves as leading towards liberty and happiness.
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